{Relocating the reader to (link) Retributions :Don’t Abort the Girl Child & Different perspectives & to Barb :60 years of & the country of freedom……
Let’s move over to the high-adrenaline fever that is poised to grip the universe…Just Do It baby! The Great Indian way!
Nike, captured Cricket – Indians’ passionate religion in its beautifully realistic view of the life. The true avataar of “Cricket” in India emerges in those narrow gullies & nukkads of Indian cities and towns. Beating out the dirt, the grime and the chaotic existence, the sport thrives on Indian roads, while strategically ignoring many a kind of resistance that comes from every corner, it displays a human exuberance in the country….it’s the loudness, the crowds, the cheer, the broken windows, the sweat flowing down the bodies under the scorching sun, the winning stroke, the loud applause from the ”fence-sitting world around…..this is India.This is Cricket. excellent musical score from Goa forms a vibrant backdrop…this reflects the in-depth study of Nike – how cricket is played and celebrated in India, everyday, every moment? {JWT Mumbai is behind this campaign and this gorgeous beauty is rated amongst the Top 5 Nike Ads worldwide!}
swirlsfromthebowlofchina 
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February 24, 2007 at 4:21 am
Barbarindian
Come to think of it, perhaps it is better to be Kalpana Chawla’s brother.
February 24, 2007 at 5:12 am
jyothsnay
Isn’t the decision “To be or Not to be” simple, Barb, assuming that the stunted mindset is naked of its constraints?
February 24, 2007 at 11:51 am
antonia2
i was wondering, you are coming from that area, how bad is it? On the level really that you for instance have friends that are pregnant and discuss to abort it if it is a girl or is it more a thing that is being reported in the newspapers? I wonder, how visible is it? Probably something that is being seen as a taboo?
February 25, 2007 at 7:23 am
jyothsnay
Dear Ant
I respect my country, which is part of BRIC economies (BrazilRussiaIndiaChina),the economy that’s surging ahead,the manpower is poised n brimming with confidence,one of the biggest markets (consumption wise) the MNCs (MULTINATIONAL COMPANIES) n TNCs (Transnational) desire to make love to…n let’s nt forget the population of intellectuals represent “I am an Indian” tag on their shoulders.India is an amazing blend of tradition way of life & modern attitude towards life.My country is a rich tapestry of many religions, many languages and varied a taste palette (in terms of food) n also is blend of “hope and upbeat youthfulness” and “despair, poverty and hopelessness”
contrasts are healthy!
now talking about Female infanticide in India..dnot know whether or not u went through the links I provided over there.cause those are strings of discussion…
Girl child, as a whole, in most families, is seen as “Lakshmi” (Goddess of wealth) but certain pockets are still male dominated societies and live with stunted mindset that hangs heavy on many closed hearts (caution:a few of these pockets in the country are rich,educated n display wealth) and if the woman gives birth to a girl child, it’s not a reason to be celebrated, and she wil be cursed n insulted ad infinitum as the elders & husband prefer or desire a boy child, cause he is potent enough to keep the generations going.Traditional practices like Dowry system {(at the time of marriage, the girl child’s parents have to *donate (a smirk) money, the money bags based on the caste starts from Rs10,000 to Rs 10 crore, which gatehrs a snob appeal) to the boy’s family..dnot u worry, I happened to be one of the victims, went through this fuckn shit once. where the family heads, elders, grey hairs n toothless faces discuss money matters, n the young man stands like alive statue in the corner..I walked out of this fuckn shit, spurning him off)}, sexual assault etc discourage to have a girl child.Unlike developed countries like yours, the incidence of teenagers / young girls having a baby or getting the baby aborted is relatively lesser an evil, a phenomenon in cities/metros/affluent families, largely.
then look at the poor families that dominate the society…poorer families have larger families in India and they dnot hesitate to drop a girl child..It’s a cruelty.an atrocity that’s been happening in developing economies like India.I want u to ead throgh the links that I’ve given.
However, more and more women are educated n finding their voices against suppressing elders, husband (most cases, husband does not even open his mouth in front of his elders, but show his aggression at her in the bed, off the bed..sorry!am spewing on sarcasm) ..n working women like me do their midgety effort to be part of a progressive minded society.but this evil would not get terminated so easily cause it is a well entrenched ritual and is done with no knowledge of the world.pregnant moms go under the scanning to find out the sex of the baby in smaller towns & conservative families (of course, well-educated women resist this, dnot entertain this…saying I need a healthy baby.does not matter Girl or boy)..unfortunately the population that practices a silent voice against this crime n or do this crime nonchalantly is significantly larger than the population that does not subscribe to this…
so, am not ashamed to tell that I am from India. I am proud that I survived this assault n staring into the eyes of the world as an assertive individual with a voice
yes I still continue to get hurt by men and their idiosyncrasies ..no qualms about that….
Everybody hurts sometime – you know it
And everybody loves soemtime – don’t be afraid to show it
If you don’t get a little hurt sometime
If you don’t dig a little dirt sometime
You ain’t living at all
Love and affection – is the sweetest thing
But when love turns sour – it ain’t a sin
It’s a bitter pill but it turns to bitter – sweet – within
And it’s on any street – everybody hurts
Sometime
….queer, Ant!
February 25, 2007 at 4:19 pm
antonia2
thanks for this long answer. Very sorry to hear you’ve been through this shit.
It sounds so complex,on the one side you have these traditions on the other the growing economies…I should think it will take along time until this all gets right, and this dowry thing is not an issue anymoreand women are not being forced into such stupid marriages.
gosh I still find it so amazing that the woman gets the blame for the ‘wrong’ sex since it’s the man who determines that biologically…that’s a matter of education probably and crossing the cultures…I’ll be having a look at the links…I knew a bit about it, but it can’t do any harm to know more.
you may be right that in my country abortion etc is not such a big issue, infact the Netherlands had one of the lowest abortionrate for years. I mean it looks developed and maybe livingstandards are higher etc, but not everything is golden, here, too. Teenagegirls who get pregnant are having a hard time if they don’t have support from family or else. And then you have also girls get raped by fraternityguys who get away with it here at my university and what’s also done here, secretly, is this Female Genitale Mutilation thing for there are a lot of immigrants from those countries here where it is done and it is very difficult to prevent that. And for the average woman with a part time job or not so skilled job she is not able to support herself alone for her income is not big enough so formally of course she needs not to marry, but in general they do just out of economical reasons or just because everyone does it. So in some sense, you and I, we are very privileged….even tho it still could improve. And then I think, the Netherlands are pretty advanced, you can buy weed here legally, gay marriage is allowed, abortion is allowed etc, maybe the only countries where women’s rights are stronger embedded in society are the scandinavians, but still it should be so much better…..the older I get the more pessimistic I become about this shit.
February 25, 2007 at 4:53 pm
jyothsnay
Ant
fabulous response, THANK YOU!I went through that stupid phase, marshy bog related to dowry…as if I had to buy a husband for self, in a bazaar.
yes, am proud of being a woman, proud of my humble beginnings n my parents who mothered & fathered three intelligent n charming women.
…umm, the older u get the more pessimistic u become…
I am running in a different direction…
the older I get the more disconcerted & disoriented I become about “so intelligent yet weak minded men”…perhaps, they regret like that old man in the movie WILD STRAWBERRIES by the legendary BERGMAN….at the point of moribund
February 25, 2007 at 5:18 pm
antonia2
the reason for ‘the older I get the more pessimistic I become’ is because when I was 18 or so I in my youthful naivity thought everything is sorted because my mother had a better job than my father…..which is…pretty naive I still think…yet however..I don’t think too much of this all, because I find it too depressive. Really my solution is to focus on the ‘progressive, likeminded’ individuals and somehow men and women make me equally disconcerted 😉 yet for different reasons….I know what you mean with intelligent yet weak minded, I have that called myself the ‘sensitive dude phenomenon’ and I always think better [or best non of thise two sorts at all] a real asshole, then ‘you see is what you get’ and with those intelligent yet weakminded you always have ugly surprises. Luckily the ‘intelligent but strong minded’ i.e.grown up versions of men exist too. But I don’t think about men as such too much. Because this distracts me from reading and so on, never thought I really would not think so much about them but I dont for some reason. That’s probably because I am anyway not interested anymore in superficial contacts because that just is a waste of time, rather in quality and one characteristic of quality is that it does/they do not make you worry so much if you know what I mean….gosh this sounds so grown up -I am getting old…I reached the age when I like it when people can cook good. I digress…
my golden rule is that they are (with luck) grown up when they reach the age of 50 🙂 They are free of course to prove that they are exceptions 🙂
February 26, 2007 at 2:02 am
jyothsnay
Ant
Naivity is such rare a commodity these days!:-P
everything appears fun and attractive whn we were in that playful youth phase of life. One tends to lead a life of ease. Then come from nowhere,all of a sudden, certain types of societal pressures to perform, to earn, to stay stable n responsible & to settle dwn in life, i.e get married. anyway, this so-defined “tight-water compartments” in life are falling apart.
This ‘progressive, likeminded’ individualism stays, as far as my experience goes, firm during the initial euphoric phase of man-woman interaction and then the dynamics change.either she gets too keen and the man becomes limpid or he emerges like a phantom that she has never seen before..haha!this’s what enthuses me.hurts me.but I get out of it quickly n watch my move again with renewed energy. precisely, as u said intelligent men with ugly surprises!
Men keep me curious, not tht am sex struck (this certainly is not in my books) and you know te fact that “women need a reason to have sex, while men need space to have sex “..they keep me enthused about their defense tactics, their insecurities, and all their feeble efforts to stay firm despite the fact that they are crumbling apart inside…there’s no right or wrong. men act according to their needs.But I am not a “man-hater”
yes, men are a big distraction…at work place, I get so irritated when they swoon over the ideas put down by me and then flaunt their broad shoulders n stolen ideas to the clients…every moment & everything reminds me that I am in a MAN’S World…so, no escape from that. Quality interaction, healthy conversations, must say, am fortunate enough to have a few of them….guess, it all depends on how the lady carries herself elegant n graceful n flirtatious yet poised
but sometimes I get too keen n tend to scare their pants off
we both think alike.I love men who are great cooks, who love cooking and passionate about food….u r matured or maturing like scotch in a cask
Letters between Ant n Jyo…haha
February 26, 2007 at 5:11 am
jyothsnay
Hey Ant
u read Dorothy Parker’s Dark chants…before?
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Book shop.
(Lady, make your mind up, and wait your life away.)
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Crap game.
(He said he’d come at moonrise, and here’s another day!)
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Bar-room.
(Wait about, and hang about, and that’s the way it goes.)
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Woman.
(Heaven never send me another one of those!)
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Golf course.
(Read a book, and sew a seam, and slumber if you can.)
Some men, some men
Cannot pass a
Haberdasher’s.
(All your life you wait around for some damn man!)
dont u love this?
February 26, 2007 at 5:26 am
antonia2
yes, haha I was thinking that also, letters between you and me and gossping about the poor men 😉
philosophy has the advantage that one has probably less to do with socialpressures than in the advertsising world I would assume, but it is also with lots more men than women and they are in general quite dull and you have a lot of the ‘sensitive guy’ phenomenon there. They know all the theories, but mostly lack the appropriate life experience and then they brag with what they all have read and so on and want to ‘educate’ their girlfried…they are not so interesting for they are all facade they are not really into thoughts or philosophy for if they really were – or for a fact sensitive, they wouldnt behave like that in the frirst place, on the contrary in general that’s the most arrogant folks one can come across when they use their socalled sensitivity only to show off how understanding they are and only want to go to bed with you…what did I want to say, yes that I luckily have become old enough not too care enough about this shit anymore, about whether i scare them or not and how to behave and what to wear, I don’t think of this. I did think of this too, but somehow I found it very liberating not to do it anymore. I mean I still do or have to sometimes for I can’t keep all the social pressures out of my life, but I try to minimize that. Because somehow like what I earlier said I am more into this quality thing that goes equally for women and men, [people that are individuals and somehow grown up (we never do fully, but I guess you know what I mean) and have their own ideas and minds made up, they know somewhat who they are and what they want and are not all facade and are able to admit weakness etc], with whom I spend my time and when I think it is dull I rather go not out and favour hanging out with my crazy artist friends so that we all together can be outcasts with crackpotish hippieideas (by the way I don’t need a reason to have sex…..:)) and so on and that’s much more relaxed….but it is not always easy to find such people.
February 26, 2007 at 5:29 am
antonia2
haha Dorothy Parker, I didn’t knew this…I mean I knew what she describes, but I don’t wait for them (anymore, yes ok admitted, sometimes I do…) they can show up in time 🙂 or I go playing golf myself 🙂
February 26, 2007 at 5:48 am
jyothsnay
are we recreating MEN here Ant? I will respond to ur well crafted response, the one before this (which has two smileys)….this is sheer fun!
I have a presentation..n soon after! will write to u again….
February 26, 2007 at 5:52 am
antonia2
🙂 I don’t know. I rather don’t want to recreate them or that they do this in return 🙂 good luck for your presentation. I go to bed again.
February 26, 2007 at 9:13 am
jyothsnay
Dear Ant
More on Men…..!
I do agree with you. Philosophy certainly is a more peaceful world to be in than advertising which is lean, mean n crude world strangled by maddening pressure to perform or ideate and high pitch competiton.
women are strngly led by their instinct and what they learnt from the surrounding environment. She tends to internalise whatever facts (I am talking about intelligent n sensible breed) she learnt from the surroounding world.while men digest many facts and for them the depth & quantity matter n with their tribe they build on their own theories
and assume the responsibility of “educating the woman”. Men are more factual (cut n dry facts), while women lend a sensitive edge to the facts. but the drawback on women : they bitch. they are jealous.while men have a stronger tribal instinct and stick together with their gangs.
umm, I should be more like you…I too dnot endorse a woman being a slave of her man’s or lover’s whims and fancies, unless he is more sensible than her..what to wear, how to entertain him..please, why does he need a woman? a lamb would suffice. and lambs understandably are boring
sometimes, I feel “like-minded” breeds boredom and monotony of existence…there should be contradictions on the table..I bring across a point he never had thought of or he never would like to agree
if people continue to live with formed and framed ideas and minds, their personal growth is stunted.what I really appreciate is one being open minded, consider & respect the other person as an individual & her views, take criticism in his stride and take it like a man!
a man does not mean a huge mountain of egotism but a sturdiness to counter varied a POV, and carry an open atmosphere for different persectives to breeze in…..
above all , I respect a man if he is knowledgeable and has the power & voice to express it. he may be reticent to express his admiration for me but if there is certain degree of willingness to sustain the momentum of interaction with me, I would be happier for having stumbled upon him. we dnot need wedlocks, we dnot need under-the-same-roof existence, we dnot want someone who nods his head to whatever we say…we need someone who complements us and like us sincere in sustaining a healthy relationship.
February 26, 2007 at 10:32 am
antonia2
well I don’t agree with this factual – sensual difference about men and women. That’s good old prejudice and while we may see such examples in daily life the bitching etc stems from a lack of power, or opportunities. People don’t bitch if they have that and if you take that away from men they would bitch, too. Civilization is only a very thin layer…that’s simple a question of power and traditions who are more influential than everyone thinks….
you’re right, in philosophy it is more peaceful,but there is also discrimination and competition etc, yet it is more subtle,it is not openly and therefore difficult to uncover.. like in the sensitive guy phenomenon they think they are so much smarter and see it as their duty to educate the poor nature ruled women who cannot think logically, something they never would say so directly, but which they pack in whatever theories..
I was thinking there are always differences, even when you are with likeminded people, one is never the same, there are always differences to argue and so on, only one is still in this differences more close than with maybe other people..
I agree with you, about this complementing aspect and interaction and the men being open minded and probably that they know themselves a bit, have an idea what they want or not want and have a relation to their feelings, after all this is not such a strong demand…I mean it is just about getting on and off (ha!) with each other and being cheerful and being oneself and if this for some reason does not work, then it doesnt work and one cannot force it…and then on the other hand, people do the strangest things, things that look strange in the eyes of all sorts of other people work for those two…so much is possible.
February 26, 2007 at 3:28 pm
alok
“sensitive guy phenomenon”? lol !!! 😀
nice discussion. very enlightening.
February 26, 2007 at 3:31 pm
jyothsnay
Ant
look who joined us? this boy certainly belongs to the rarest breed “intelligent sensitive heart with pleasant surprises” 😛
February 26, 2007 at 3:48 pm
antonia2
yes 🙂 hi alok. now you know all our secrets.
February 26, 2007 at 4:31 pm
alok
secrets? hmmm… these are common things 🙂 everybody knows this.
from a man’s point of view, I think it is very easy to invent a persona, to become what other person wants you to be. It is not the same as lying or being dishonest because that would assume an objective reference point exists about what you “really” are. What one is inside is all fluid and changing. One can be sensitive, aggressive, passive, anything as and when it is needed. Women look for sensitive guys so that’s where this sensitive guy phenomenon comes from. May be it is because I have spent last month reading Man without Qualities but I am convinced this is how it is.
but still one needn’t be completely cynical and pessimistic and closed to others and the outside world. just a bit cautious and thoughtful.
February 26, 2007 at 5:05 pm
antonia2
yes true, alok, this person-inventionthing goes for women as well. but what do you want, the fake person or the real one? It can be nice of course to play a little while with all those personalities, but in general I am rather interested in the ‘fluid’ personality of a person. ..to see who one really is
I agree with this cautious and thoughtful-thing which is it seems equivalent to my ‘quality’ approach…
February 26, 2007 at 5:26 pm
jyothsnay
well Ant, whatever we discussed many not be secrets.known facts but only a few courageous souls express this eloquently
umm, now let’s look at what our dear Alok is saying…
sure it is easy to maintain a mask over the true personality (we know na, we have the hardcore real person in us, n the second one is that Aspirational)….let me take an xample, thin n frail guy rides a huge mammoth 175cc mobike, he draws that much desired confidence, machoism through riding it..he could be awkward, but he somehow draws the crowd’s attention
there’s nothing wrong if I want to portray myself as an arrogant, loud-mouthed activist, while in reality, I amy be level headed with firm feet n reticent…but the efforts are on.
the issue is how long this can be feigned or performed to a person who he or she in love with, for that matter, interacting with?suppose, this happens, would both have this maturity to understand n move along or move apart?
women, Alok, desire, men who are comfortable with their masculinity and dnot use them in demonstrable terms.A man, I define, is stability, clarity of mind, futuristic, ambitious (need not be a die-hard guy) and sensitive..I say humane.
yes,pessimism kills one.whatever happens, keep interacting the world, n in the process gather one more layer of maturity.one then becomes more wholesome.
the fake, Ant, would crack soon.the fluidity u r talking about is interesting..but given the same kind of situation, if the person acts differently, what should I gain …is he inconsistent or is he evolving by leaps n bounds?
February 26, 2007 at 6:22 pm
antonia2
I meant this with the secrets abit as a joke, sorry for confusion…
“but given the same kind of situation, if the person acts differently, what should I gain …is he inconsistent or is he evolving by leaps n bounds?”
depending just on the situation or person, could be both. I don’t know whether it is about gaining….
“women, Alok, desire, men who are comfortable with their masculinity and dnot use them in demonstrable terms.”
I agree with this…
but somehow would probably place other adjectives here…..
“A man, I define, is stability, clarity of mind, futuristic, ambitious (need not be a die-hard guy) and sensitive..”
…for me a man cold be perfectly instable or not ambitious if thats how he is and is not hiding it – another question is then whether I would want to be together with him but this also c/would depend on other things….probably the only demand i have that he is how he is, a little play with masks included once in a while for the entertainment….oh this is making me sad, I’m lovesick
February 26, 2007 at 6:24 pm
jyothsnay
hush Ant dnot feel sad..it’s fine.u will be loved by someone soon.who knows someone may be loving u now..only he is constraining self to express his love for you..tch wood
February 26, 2007 at 6:36 pm
antonia2
hmmnn yes no I don’t know. hmm maybe you’re right. Haven’t looked at it from this perspective..oh…it’sjust I don’t know..
February 27, 2007 at 2:04 am
jyothsnay
Dear Ant….
Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans..trust me! it takes a lot of time for the best to happen…everything ends at silence, which does not intend to offend anyone.
dnot you know we save the last dance for someone we love..right? Love-J
February 27, 2007 at 6:40 am
antonia2
“everything ends at silence, which does not intend to offend anyone.”
well said & I agree. that was a nice conversation..thank you.
February 27, 2007 at 6:51 am
antonia2
There is a bit of insanity in dancing that does everybody a great deal of good. ~Edwin Denby
🙂
February 27, 2007 at 6:54 am
jyothsnay
:-D, u know what Ant
I am thinking of dragging a large part of this conversation between u n me, a bit of Alok’s n post it separately…this is more like xchanging notes n can be continued whenever u or I feel like..will give u my password..so that u can update..how about this? let’s be different…am studying Chennai lifestyle, culture for one of my brands..interesting a read!
u must be busy with ur books.have not visited ur & Alok’s blog in the last few days
February 27, 2007 at 9:20 am
antonia2
for me it is also just fine if we leave it in the comments for then otehrs have the possibility to join the discussion….
sounds interesting, chennai…something I dont know about anything at all…
have a ood day